Curse

Creston · Jun 16, 2005, 08:11 PM // 20:11

I'm just wondering how often people use Superior runes? I bought a superior tactics with my W/Mo. I do have points in tactics, but really not all that many yet, and it seems that the only thing I ever even use it for is my Heal Siggy.

Would it be worth the 75 health to start using this thing? Just curious how other players feel about superiors.

Creston

Talesin Darkbriar · Jun 16, 2005, 08:18 PM // 20:18

At this time, Superior runes are just not worth the penalty you must take in exchange for the mild bonus they yield.

Others will no doubt disagree, but whether playing PvP or PvE, we can agree that remaining alive is the object.
When you are dealing with the higher end creatures and PvP; voluntarily taking a hit of 75 health (per superior rune) is only aiding the enemy - regardless of the perceived "benefit" gained.

Go with minor runes, and keep your health.

May your skills prevail,

Talesin

Creston · Jun 16, 2005, 08:25 PM // 20:25

That's about what I thought yeah. Thanks

Creston

Angels Touch · Jun 16, 2005, 08:29 PM // 20:29

I have to agree the hit in health is not worth the extra point(s), there are certain builds that might benefit (those that take advantage of low health) but in general the health loss is to great.
This is even more apparent if you are taking the skill above 12 as the return from putting more points in drops dramatically after that.

The Destroyer · Jun 16, 2005, 08:34 PM // 20:34

The only superiior rune I have actually used is on my monk. Superior Divine. The reason being taking this attrib up past 12 does give me a great bonus to my heals and the loss in life isnt a big deal becuase I am not doing my job if the enemy is hitting me and not my tanks.

Lews · Jun 16, 2005, 08:35 PM // 20:35

I use minor runes, and one major healing rune or divine rune, and a superior vigor to balance that.

on the northern wall though I saw a level 4 guy with level 50 armor, and all major runes. He must have had like 50 hit points left!

Saerden · Jun 16, 2005, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Sup healing, sup air, maybe sup [sword, axe, hammer], maybe sup. divine are NEEDED in pvp as far as i know.

Sup Death should be good in pve.

Sup. vigor does not need to be mentioned

The question you have to ask yourself: what does the rune add to your build:
16s->18s duration on a hex? (pointless)
or 100dmg->106dmg for a damage spike build? (NEEDED)

I would say that sup tactics is worthless, unless you know what you are doing (special build). in this case however, you would not ask

Elythor · Jun 16, 2005, 09:13 PM // 21:13

If you are building a Fear Me! team build...then superior tactics might come in handy. At lvl 12, your Fear Me! drains 3 energy. So with superior rune + hat, you get lvl 16 -> drains 4 energy. So that's 33% increase in draining/disruption efficiency.

Of course, I'm talking about a very specialized build here.....

hellraisin · Jun 16, 2005, 09:16 PM // 21:16

for my w/e, i have major vigor and absorption, the rest are minor. been a tank/warrior, hp is needed.

for my ranger however, i have 3 masks, each one with a superior rune, superior marks/exerptise/wilderness. this let me do 14/12/11 for those three skills in any combination. major vigor offset the -75 penalty by a bit, i think it's worth it.

Zeru · Jun 16, 2005, 09:28 PM // 21:28

There are some must-have runes that aren't minor. These include: Superior Expertise, Superior Air/Water/Fire, Superior Dom, Superior Hammer/Sword/Axe, Superior Death for minioners, and of course Superior Vigor and Absorption.

Others shouldn't always be on like those, but they can be situational. For example, Sup DF when you are a DB monk.

And then there are some that really should almost never be on, i,e superior wilderness, superior strength, superior energy storage, and others.

Mister Glue · Jun 16, 2005, 10:32 PM // 22:32

I think it really comes down to how well you can balance it out. If you can put on a few major runes or a superior rune but balance it out with either increased spell/skill efficiency, or by merely getting a Vigor rune and a +health weapon, then it's worth it. "Balancing," however, can be up to the opinion of the user, so that's not something that can be easily defined.

I personally use three minor and one major rune on my Monk because it lets me get to 12/12/10/6 in four of my attributues. I balance the major rune out with a Minor Vigor and a +30 health Healing Ankh, so I don't actually lose any health, but still get the bonus in healing (I use a major divine favor rune). It helps me a ton.

Divinitys Creature · Jun 16, 2005, 10:40 PM // 22:40

I unlocked that as my first superior, was happy for a split second then realised how little use it would be :P

Synthos · Jun 16, 2005, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lews

I use minor runes, and one major healing rune or divine rune, and a superior vigor to balance that.

on the northern wall though I saw a level 4 guy with level 50 armor, and all major runes. He must have had like 50 hit points left!

I wonder what happens if you put 5 superior runes in if your level 1.. The world may never know

Nad · Jun 16, 2005, 11:24 PM // 23:24

It really depends on the skills, most supeior runes will never be used. The thing you have to realize is, 150hp heal is a 150hp heal no matter what your max health. Also with most attributes you'll have multiple skills of that type on your bar. 10 extra damage might not seem like a lot on lightning orb for example, but 10 extra, 5 extra, 5 extra, and 10 extra on the 4 air skills you spam all add up. Then multiply those numbers by the ammount of times you cast those spells/skills per minute. The extra DPS is nice.

Moofoo Pork · Jun 16, 2005, 11:27 PM // 23:27

I only have 1 superior expertise, which i feel is needed as a ranger, and looking for a superior vigor and fortitude grip to get some health back..

StandardAI · Jun 16, 2005, 11:49 PM // 23:49

You use a superior rune only on your highest attribute because the jump from 9-12 is 49 skill points, and the jump from 0-9 is 48 skill points.

Vermilion Okeanos · Jun 17, 2005, 12:04 AM // 00:04

warriors are about the best class to have like 2 superior in tomb battle... who actually pick warriors as first target anyway? None... unless debuff or something.

superior tactic is probably something I would never put on unless I want to use balance stance + desperation blow like a mad man/woman while also using thrill of victory that is...

Malchiel · Jun 17, 2005, 12:21 AM // 00:21

So inconclusion... superior runes are useful, just not overpowered. It helps lend you flexibility and better strategies.

FYI if you think staying alive is the primary goal in PvP... you mustn't have played a lot of it

NoChance · Jun 17, 2005, 04:18 AM // 04:18

yeah...

what does happen when you put 5 superior runes on a level 1 guy...

someone please find out!!!

i'm guessing you have to delete your character.

Eclair · Jun 17, 2005, 05:08 AM // 05:08

I know that if you're DP gets too high, and you have multiple superiors, you'll die as soon as you're ressed.